Sorry for Apologizing_I FROZE MY EGGS w Rachel Tipograph: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Sorry for Apologizing_I FROZE MY EGGS w Rachel Tipograph: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to Sorry for Apologizing. I'm your host, Missy Modell, activist, strategist, and recovering chronic apologizer. In this podcast, we'll explore all of the ways women have been conditioned by society to play small, whether it's being expected to have children, tolerate chronic pain, or accept gender inequities from orgasms to paychecks. This season, we'll work to challenge the cultural beliefs that brought us here and discuss all of the reasons why we should be asking for forgiveness rather than permission. It is time to stop apologizing.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to part two of I Froze My Eggs. I am joined by one of the closest people to me, my brilliant cousin, Rachel Tipograph. Hi, Rache.

Rachel Tipograph:
Hey Miss!

Missy Modell:
Who's also the founder and CEO of MikMak, have to plug.

Rachel Tipograph:
Thank you.

Missy Modell:
What's up?

Rachel Tipograph:
MikMak.com, even though we're about to talk about fertility.

Missy Modell:
A natural progression. So speaking of fertility, we both froze our eggs not so recently from one another. So when did you freeze your eggs?

Rachel Tipograph:
The month of April. And you did it late May or into June, right?

Missy Modell:
Yeah, exactly. And I feel like throughout your whole process, I was just trying to assess every step of the way to mentally prepare. Are you feeling completely back to normal?

Rachel Tipograph:
Yes, I would say it took me six weeks to feel myself again.

Missy Modell:
What did you feel like right after?

Rachel Tipograph:
Right after was the worst part for me. This time leading into it, I actually was doing pretty okay, but after the extraction, I couldn't pretty much walk for two days, so that was a little scary. And then, after two days, I was able to walk, I was just really bloated for about two more weeks.

Missy Modell:
You were bloated?

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, definitely bloated.

Missy Modell:
Were you surprised, like, did the doctors prep you for this kind of reaction? Because I feel like they told me minor pain, and you got more eggs than me, so maybe that's also why, which we'll get into later. But did you expect to feel?

Rachel Tipograph:
... a competition.

Missy Modell:
It is a competition. No, to feel like so physically low.

Rachel Tipograph:
You know, we're both 36, and I feel like I had like a dozen friends who had done this prior to me, so I felt more prepared through my friends than the doctors. And what I took away from all of my friend conversations, coupled with the doctor, is that everybody is different. So I'm going to have my own unique experience, but I understood the potential things that could happen, so I didn't feel so blind.

Missy Modell:
Was there anything that was shocking?

Rachel Tipograph:
I think for me, the shocking part was the end result, and that was probably the most shocking.

Missy Modell:
Do you want to reveal? Do you want to talk about it? Without disclosing a number, you could just give a ballpark.

Rachel Tipograph:
We learned that I'm very fertile. Let's just say that.

Missy Modell:
And I am kind of average.

Rachel Tipograph:
Normal. Yeah, you're normal.

Missy Modell:
I'm normal.

Rachel Tipograph:
I would say the most surprising thing was, I don't think I fully understood the trigger shot. That was like really wrapping my head around it. I don't know what time yours was, but I think mine was like 10 p.m. and 1 a.m. and then 12 p.m. the next day. So that was a little nerve-wracking because you just didn't want to fuck it up, and it's late at night and all that stuff.

Missy Modell:
I had the same thing. I was so paranoid and nervous, and I thought I misread the directions, and I just didn't sleep the entire night because I was so afraid I messed up the cycle, but it's very jarring to wake up in the middle of the night to give yourself a shot.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, and it's pitch black outside. Yeah, I agree, a weird experience.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, it's very strange. So why don't we go to, when did you decide, or when was like the first thought about freezing your eggs, that you decided or were thinking about doing it?

Rachel Tipograph:
Well, I think the media, when you turn 30, and you're a woman, makes you believe that you are now infertile. So as soon as I turned 30, I started thinking about my fertility. And I'm, as you know, I'm not the type of person that really ever thought about it. And then when I hit my mid-30s, I remember like my 33rd birthday, I'm like, oh, I need to really start figuring out when I'm going to do this. And then when I was 34, I told myself, I'm doing it when I'm 34, didn't do it. And then when I was 35, I said, I'm going to do it when I'm 35, didn't do it. And when I knew I was turning 36, I pretty much held myself accountable. And I was like, I have to do it, and I really planned for it. I decided that for professional reasons, April was the best time for me to do it because I didn't have travel obligations. I have to travel a lot for work, and my whole company knew. Like April is off limits for Rachel, she has to be in New York City. Like that's what you have to do for this experience, which is crazy.

Missy Modell:
And did everybody on the team know that you were doing it, specifically?

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, and to be honest, that ended up being more controversial than I expected it to be. I think this process makes you recognize that fertility is complicated, and it is full of emotions, and everyone brings their personal experience to it. So I don't know if I made a good or bad decision, but I actually told my company in a town hall that.

Missy Modell:
For that, wait, hold on, was that the reason you created the town hall?

Rachel Tipograph:
No. No, I lead monthly town halls.

Missy Modell:
But I imagine, like a egg-specific town hall.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, so, like, I just let people know, the same way that I imagine if I were pregnant, I would let people know, like, hey, in the month of April, I'm going to be doing this medical procedure, I'm going to be freezing my eggs, and I'm not going to be able to travel during this time. After I did that, I got messages from female employees that told me that was so empowering. I've never worked at a company where a CEO like publicly talked about their fertility. And then, through my HR team, I actually learned that I also upset some women, which I felt terrible about. And I didn't think about this side, which is some women have had really challenging fertility experiences, and it could be triggering to have your CEO publicly talk about fertility in a work setting. So it made me realize like, whoa, there's a lot of feelings and experiences around a moment like this.

Missy Modell:
But was the controversy, because it's not you disclosing your results, it's just the act of doing it enough was enough to trigger.

Rachel Tipograph:
It was enough to trigger, and that was never my intention. And I felt terrible because I want to create a safe and inclusive work environment. But it just makes you realize, like everyone has their own individual experience.

Missy Modell:
I mean, even my mom told me not to tell anybody. And obviously, I do the opposite and did two podcast episodes and document the entire thing. But it's really interesting because she's like, this is a private medical matter.

Rachel Tipograph:
We run in similar circles, but also different circles. And multiple people in the last few weeks have said, I love what your cousin has done.

Missy Modell:
Really?

Rachel Tipograph:
Just, yes, bringing awareness to this. People who are our age, but as well as people who are our mother's age that follow you.

Missy Modell:
Oh, interesting. I was looking at an apartment, and I tell everybody because I have no filter, and I told the realtor that I'm, I just froze my eggs. She's like, good for you, sweetie, that's amazing. And she was being so kind and made me feel really good about it. But it just, still to this day, it is something of, not only triggering to people, but it also creates discomfort for the average person. I wonder, was it women or men that complained? If you know.

Rachel Tipograph:
My HR team didn't reveal, I got the sense it was women, but I actually don't know. That's a good question.

Missy Modell:
Well, let's talk about your personal journey, because our reasons for freezing are a bit different, right? Because you have to freeze your eggs, so you don't have to do anything, but you're choosing to freeze your eggs.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, I'm choosing, yeah, yeah, choosing. Some of the same reasons, but also slightly different reasons for me. Yeah, so I'm gay. I'm married to a woman, who's now your cousin,

Missy Modell:
She is. We love Sammy.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yes, and yeah, I mean, creating children as a lesbian couple requires a level of intentionality that maybe a heterosexual doesn't have to do, but also a lot of them do, and that's what you experienced in the waiting room. Like there's all different types of people in the waiting room. So for Sammy and I, me freezing my eggs was the first step in our fertility journey to have children. So I'm not going to say this is the exact playbook, but you can freeze your eggs or embryos, you then find sperm, you can either find sperm from a known donor, or you can go on the sperm bank websites and find someone, and then you do similar things, but you do all the genetic testing, and then they figure out if it's a match, and you end up freezing your embryo, and then either Sammy and I carry that embryo, and hopefully a child comes from it. But freezing your eggs is the first step.

Missy Modell:
And how did you decide you were going to do it versus Sammy?

Rachel Tipograph:
Sammy's 32, so according to the media, she has a few more years on her side than me, and Sammy, she's so funny, you know how funny she is. But she, I was always like, and I don't know if this is my ego, but I really wanted my biology to be involved in the creation of our children. Sammy would tell you that she's less attached to her own DNA.

Missy Modell:
Sammy.

Rachel Tipograph:
But we learned from Dr. Brian Levine at CCRM something really, really cool that we tell everyone, which is the DNA of a child, a baby is 40% the egg, 40% the sperm, 20% the surrogate.

Missy Modell:
What?

Rachel Tipograph:
Yes, so the epigenetic parts of holding that embryo gets infused into the baby's DNA. So for Sammy to potentially carry my embryo, her biology will actually be involved in the creation of that child.

Missy Modell:
That just gave me the chills. I had no idea.

Rachel Tipograph:
I know, that's what I said to Dr. Brian Levine. I was like, This needs to be a PSA.

Missy Modell:
It does. That's, so doesn't he specialize in this as well. Like specifically, that's his.

Rachel Tipograph:
He may, or he might just work with all the lesbians that, you know, in New York City. But yeah, I mean, that's how we ended up at CCRM, like all of our friends who are lesbians went to Dr. Levine.

Missy Modell:
No, the funny thing about this whole thing is, did you do anything to prep? Because we had very opposite experiences. I took my CoQ10, my prenatals, I did acupuncture weekly, but not my Rachel. What did you do?

Rachel Tipograph:
I just ensured that I wasn't traveling in the month.

Missy Modell:
Cool.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah. I mean, I, honestly, this is just me with medical stuff. I don't think about it too much, for better or worse. And so we're related through our dads are first cousins. And so your grandparents were my great-grandparents. And my obviously, you know, this my grandparents and your great uncle, and when we look at our genes, we're very lucky, but like we have a lot of people that have lived into their 90s. And like your grandma, for example, smoked for a while and she was.

Missy Modell:
Always. She was a closet smoker and no one knew.

Rachel Tipograph:
You and I know, she pushed it into the far 90s. And so I just share this because a lot of this is just genetic in some way. I'm not going to say that prep isn't valuable, I'm sure it is, but I kind of just like rolled the dice with our genes.

Missy Modell:
No, it's really true. And I think it's just so interesting how every outcome for every person is different, and if you do multiple cycles, your outcomes are different.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, it's crazy.

Missy Modell:
Like I had a friend that had, I think in like the single digits for the first two rounds and got like 11 or 12 on the third, so it's just interesting. What would you tell people that were on the fence about this if they're nervous about doing it?

Rachel Tipograph:
Well, there's something that I was hoping we would get to and maybe this is the appropriate time. This is a real privilege. Freezing your eggs costs a lot of money, and most insurance providers don't cover it. And I feel very lucky that I was able to afford doing this because my insurance doesn't cover it. And every single time I entered CCRM, the practice where we both went, I really thought about my privilege. And for me, I really thought about all the other same-sex couples that want to have children but aren't as financially able. So right now, personally, I haven't started anything, but like, I'm just very energized by trying to figure out how to democratize and provide access so more people can participate in this process if they want to. That's like the biggest thing that I really took away from this whole experience, as right now it is unfortunately only designed for people who can pony up the cash to do it.

Missy Modell:
And it's a lot of cash. And I mentioned this in my other episode with Dr. Knopman because I walk in and you feel the privilege. You feel like you're on the Upper East Side or in a very ritzy environment. It does feel that way and it made me feel kind of guilty. I don't know if you felt that way.

Rachel Tipograph:
Well, I didn't feel guilty. I felt very privileged and I wanted to use and still want to use my privilege to make this available to hopefully millions of other people one day.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, my friend's company, CoFertility, and I worked with them. They do a model where you freeze your eggs and donate the other half. So that's an option too, but you know, there are certain age restrictions, but that's an amazing start to the conversation.

Rachel Tipograph:
That's really interesting. What was your question again?

Missy Modell:
What was the question? Oh, just for people that, any other thoughts? Because this is such an emotional journey.

Rachel Tipograph:
Like the first thing is just like acknowledging the financial aspect and whether it's saving or taking a job with an employer who covers it, like it's important to you, like then figuring out you're going to finance it is number one. Number two, I think this whole age thing is a myth, and my experience proves that to me. Like I was very concerned I was doing this at 36 and frankly, I got more eggs out of me than someone who did it at 30 that I know, and so.

Missy Modell:
In their 20s, honestly.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, I think that whole thing is a myth and we're all rolling the dice right now. And then the last part is if you're going through it or about to go through it, it's like ease your nerves about it. We're lucky that it's the year 2023. This type of process has been out in market for like 40 years and they've really perfected it. I'm just blown away by how scientific it is and at least CCRM, Brian, this is an endorsement for your practice, but I felt very safe. Like these people know what they're doing, it's a machine.

Missy Modell:
I felt really safe. As you know, I'm such a hypochondriac, and I felt very at ease throughout the whole thing. But it's, just, I felt like a human experiment, though. I don't know if you felt that way, it's bizarre.

Rachel Tipograph:
Really, you're blown away by science like it's crazy.

Missy Modell:
And just how they can predict, okay, you're going to be ovulating now. Like they just know, and in a weird way, I don't know if you. Feel this way. It made me connect to my body in a way I've never felt before.

Rachel Tipograph:
I totally agree with that.

Missy Modell:
I feel really in tune and almost protective of it.

Rachel Tipograph:
And it's got to say, I'm so proud of you because I know how anxious you are feeling about this whole thing. And like, not only did you get through it, but like, you brought so much awareness to the process for other people.

Missy Modell:
So, Rache, well, now you're going to do it. You're going to return the favor and democratize the whole system on a major level.

Rachel Tipograph:
I'm going to put it on my list of things I want to do, yeah.

Missy Modell:
So do you have any weird emotions throughout, like were your emotions surging? Because we didn't touch upon that, but for me, it didn't hit me till like the end. And I felt, and still do, because I'm still in it, it's only a few days later, feel a bit unhinged.

Rachel Tipograph:
No, it was very clear to me that I had extremely heightened emotions throughout the whole process, and I would say like the whole six-week journey. Um, I.

Missy Modell:
What was your six-week journey? Not to interrupt you. What was the six weeks for you?

Rachel Tipograph:
From starting the shots to getting my period after the surgery and feeling bloated, you know?

Missy Modell:
Got it, got it.

Rachel Tipograph:
I would say my emotions were at an all-time high, which really was a challenge for me professionally. And so I lead a company, and I have employees all around the world. I really cut back on my schedule because I was nervous to put myself in any sort of high-stakes situation, and that also is a privilege that I can control my schedule like that. But I have just so much respect for every woman in the workplace who's ever had a child in any shape or form, how they've done it, because we are truly at a disadvantage. Like the amount of hormones that were in me while I had to like lead senior leadership team meetings, my male colleagues who are wonderful, like, it's not an equal playing field.

Missy Modell:
Yeah.

Rachel Tipograph:
And it really makes you understand the setbacks that women have had in the workplace because of fertility.

Missy Modell:
I mean, even just our cycles in general, Like, I wonder how that contributes to being efficient at certain tasks and ability to concentrate compared to our male colleagues. That's such an interesting point.

Rachel Tipograph:
In Spain now, you can take medical leave for having your period. So, I mean, they recognize it.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, wow. Are there any other last thoughts on the matter that you want to share, get off your chest?

Rachel Tipograph:
The other part was doing this with Sammy. I was doing it, and it really felt like, in that moment, I'm like, Sammy is my wife. Like, this is like a, and, you know, it's different for same-sex couples like, right? We can't just, like, make a baby with our bodies, and we need science. And so to feel connected to Sammy through this process was really special, and it just made me want to continue the journey with her.

Missy Modell:
I mean, you chose each other perfectly, I think, and this is probably just for the realization, not that you needed it.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, no, it was really special.

Missy Modell:
Did you administer the shots yourself?

Rachel Tipograph:
So the first two days? No. I had this great nurse who, I think she saw you, Anna, from CCRM. And on the second day, I was like, you know, I feel like I could do this myself. She's like, yes, you can, and I'm going to teach you. And she taught me and then I did it myself the rest of the time. And it was so empowering to know that I could just give myself shots.

Missy Modell:
Did you make it a routine or did you just kind of like inject and go?

Rachel Tipograph:
No, so we did make it a routine. I did everything at night. I know some people like split it, but it was just easier for me to do it all at night.

Missy Modell:
Oh, you did nothing in the morning?

Rachel Tipograph:
No.

Missy Modell:
How?

Rachel Tipograph:
And I think that's another myth.

Missy Modell:
Oh, my God. What? That wasn't an option for me. They're like, do this in the morning and this at night.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, I was just like, can I do everything at night? They're like, yeah, sure.

Missy Modell:
Okay, cool. Good to know.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, so I did it all at night and we would do it typically between 5 and 6 and we would do it together, and then after we did that, we would like make dinner. And so, yeah, it was special. And then CCRM is in Midtown, my office is in Soho, and I'm an early riser and I would do the 7:30 a.m. slots where you go to the office and they check on you, and then I would walk, it's about four miles down like sixth avenue to my office.

Missy Modell:
Oh, that's so nice.

Rachel Tipograph:
I just felt also more connected to New York City. Like, it was like this moment where I was like, with Sammy and New York City, it was really cool.

Missy Modell:
That is really cool. And something that you might not have felt towards New York had you not gone through this experience. That's so cool. Were you ravenous after the retrieval and what was the first meal you ate?

Rachel Tipograph:
So we drove upstate. We have a house in the Catskills and we also live in Manhattan. I really wanted to be upstate, which I'm glad I did because like, just was in bed. But, um, Sammy brought me it was the equivalent of like an Italian sub in a wrap.

Missy Modell:
Oh, that sounds amazing.

Rachel Tipograph:
Cheese, yeah.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, salt.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah. What'd you eat?

Missy Modell:
Everything. Literally everything. I had pickles. I had chicken fingers, I had French fries. I had just, like, a lot of carb, pizza, like an entire Pizza pie.

Rachel Tipograph:
Oh, my God.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, I could not satiate my hunger. It was bizarre.

Rachel Tipograph:
Makes sense, I mean, you have all these hormones in us.

Missy Modell:
Yeah. And I'm hoping it's calming down because it's been a little bit low feeling the past few days, but I think it'll, once I get my period.

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, and get back into exercise, all that.

Missy Modell:
Yeah. Have you been exercising yet?

Rachel Tipograph:
Oh, yeah. As soon as I got the period, I went straight on the bike.

Missy Modell:
Oh, is that when you can?

Rachel Tipograph:
Yeah, as soon as you get your period, you can start exercising again.

Missy Modell:
Oh, amazing. Oh, we have one final question per the show title. What are you sorry for apologizing for? Unrelated to egg freezing, just in your own life.

Rachel Tipograph:
I'm sorry for apologizing for being a first-time founder.

Missy Modell:
Wow, that's really good. Thank you for sharing and being so honest and vulnerable and helping so many people by just sharing.

Rachel Tipograph:
Well, thank you for creating this platform to educate folks.

Missy Modell:
Thanks, Rach. Love you. Where can people find you?

Rachel Tipograph:
MikMak.com. Find me there.

Missy Modell:
What about your Instagram?

Rachel Tipograph:
My Instagram is my name, RachelTipograph is my Insta.

Missy Modell:
And go follow her. All right. Thanks, Rach, love you.

Rachel Tipograph:
Love you.

Missy Modell:
Thank you for listening to Sorry for Apologizing, brought to you by Rescripted. If you enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our amazing guests. To stay in the know, follow me at @MissyModell on Instagram and TikTok or head to Rescripted.com, and don't forget to like and subscribe.

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