Sorry for Apologizing_I FROZE MY EGGS w Dr. Knopman: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Sorry for Apologizing_I FROZE MY EGGS w Dr. Knopman: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to Sorry for Apologizing. I'm your host, Missy Modell; activist, strategist, and recovering chronic apologizer. In this podcast, we'll explore all of the ways women have been conditioned by society to play small, whether it's being expected to have children, tolerate chronic pain, or accept gender inequities from orgasms to paychecks. This season, we'll work to challenge the cultural beliefs that brought us here and discuss all of the reasons why we should be asking for forgiveness rather than permission. It is time to stop apologizing.

Missy Modell:
Welcome to Sorry for Apologizing. I am joined today by my amazing doctor, Dr. Jaime Knopman, who is the director of egg freezing at CCRM Fertility in New York City. Welcome, Jaime / Doctor Knopman.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
How are you? By the way, that's an amazing title of a podcast.

Missy Modell:
Thank you.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Because I have spent my whole life apologizing, and I'm not really sure why, and I think that's amazing.

Missy Modell:
And we're going to figure out what you're sorry for apologizing by the end of this episode.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Okay, good.

Missy Modell:
You're catching us. I have done my egg retrieval. I am several days out. I did it with Dr. Knopman, and a lot of people have been following the journey, and just, really curious from start to finish what it's really like, and who better to task this conversation with than you?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Thanks!

Missy Modell:
So I, yeah, so there was a really interesting quote that egg freezing is the ultimate act of self-care. What would you say to that?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I think that's very true. I've been thinking about egg freezing or talking about egg freezing for so many years. The thing that moves me the most about egg freezing is, it's you doing something for you, right? You're saying, I think I may want this in the future, I want to take control, I want to do it for me. I think it's like one of the most badass things somebody can do because it's really putting themselves in the driver's seat, which for so many of us, we don't do. We sort of let life just lead us, go do whatever, and I think this is really an exceptional time for you to say this is what I need to do.

Missy Modell:
And obviously, there's an age component to it all. So what is the link between age and fertility? Because I think the first thing people want to know when they're even thinking about egg freezing is, what is a good age and does it matter when I do it?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
It's so funny that we're talking today because I'm hosting for high school seniors for a senior internship this week, and I was like, ladies, what have we learned in biology? What do we know about our fertility? And they're telling me about their periods, their hormones. I'm like, why has nobody mentioned what happens to our eggs as we get older? I'm like, everyone is failing. Now, I'm like, the reality is that as we get older, our fertility declines because our egg quality and our egg quantity goes down, end of story, right? So the older you get, the less eggs you'll have, the lower the quality, The younger you freeze, the better you'll ultimately do in terms of your egg-freezing success. So I think it's super unfortunate that we don't learn this in biology class or health class, because the way we live today is so different than the way our moms and our grandmothers lived. We don't get married, most of us are 20 or 21 and have our first kid at 23, 24. Most of us are pushing that into our late 20s, early 30s, and infertility is already starting to creep in, so we really need to be aware of what happens to our bodies as we get older.

Missy Modell:
And why is 35 the age? Why 35?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So it's not, really, I mean, so the reason why we've always called 35 advanced maternal age is that was the age at which the risk of chromosomal abnormalities in a pregnancy went up greater than the risk of losing a pregnancy from an invasive procedure such as an amniocentesis. So that was where the line in the sand was sort of drawn, but the reality is we don't stand at the cliff, and at 35, someone's pushing you over the edge. You get pushed over the edge, unfortunately, at 30, or you may not be pushed over until 38. So I always say yes, 35 is where for most of us, things really start to decline, but the reality is it may decline way earlier.

Missy Modell:
So when would you say is the best age to freeze your eggs?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I'd say late 20s, early 30s. And just so you know, Missy knows I have two daughters who think I'm, as they say, cringey all the time, like mom cringey, but like you're freezing at 22 because I'm aware of the science. I just, now that's again, you're talking to a fertility doctor as a mom. But I think if you do this when you're younger, you get so much more bang for your buck, and it's out of your head.

Missy Modell:
Why do you get bang for your buck?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Because you can get, 10 eggs at 30 are going to last you so much more than 20 eggs at 40. So you're going to go a greater distance with those eggs because the quality is better, so I can do one round of egg freezing at 28 years old, which will amount to a lot more than three rounds of egg freezing at 38 years old.

Missy Modell:
And what have you seen? And we'll get into rounds a bit later, but is it common to freeze your eggs more than once?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
It is. I would say 50% of patients require at least two cycles.

Missy Modell:
So let's get into it because that's something I definitely want to talk about, like what it actually is that you're looking for when the eggs are frozen. So I'm calling CCRM, I want to book an appointment. What is the first thing you check for?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So when a patient comes in, we chat, right? We chat about their reproductive health, their OB-GYN health, their maternal, like mom's history, grandmothers', and their medical and surgical history, then we do an assessment of their egg quality. But we can't see eggs, they're microscopic, the only people that can see eggs are the embryologists, so I am looking at their follicles, those are the shells that hold the eggs, and I'm saying, okay, when I look at these ovaries, do I see five follicles? Do I see ten follicles? Do I see twenty follicles? Because that will correlate to the number of eggs that they will get when they do an egg retrieval. I will also look at a hormone called the AMH level, which is an egg quantity test that will support what I'm seeing on the ovaries, on the ultrasound.

Missy Modell:
So, okay, you got my baseline. I want to do it. What do I do now?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Then we talk about when, because we're all busy, we have like a million things going on. I say you need to find two weeks that you can sort of commit to me or commit to the process rather than being like, oh, I'm going to fly to California, I'm going to come back. I'm going to go to Arizona, but two weeks where you can be here, and those two weeks have to correlate to the start of a menstrual cycle. So if I'm getting day one of my period July 1st, but I'm planning to go away July 4th to July 12th, that doesn't work that cycle. But if I'm going to be here early August when I get my period, then I would start. So we have to sit with our patient care team, and they will map out when is the best time for you to start based on when your period is, and then we start the stimulatory cycle, so we start you taking shots.

Missy Modell:
And what should we expect to not be able to do? Because I think we talk a lot about shots and medicine. What can I do if I'm freezing my eggs and why do I need to be in town?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Well, when you're freezing your eggs, we have to measure your hormones and we have to look at your ovaries. So we like to see you every 2 to 3 days to say, okay, do we need to increase the meds? We need to decrease the meds. When's the best time to take out these eggs? So that's why you need to be around so that if we make modifications, you can make them and we can see you. Other than that, you can pretty much live your life, right? You can exercise, you can't jump, you can't run, but you could ride a peloton. You could do strength training, you could ride the elliptical. This is controversial, but the reality is your eggs are your worst best friend, right? They have been there through everything you've ever done. So they're like, yep, saw you then, saw you then, right? So people are like, I'm not going to drink for two weeks. I'm like, okay, do whatever you want to do, but that's not going to change the outcome of your egg-freezing cycle. Should you get so wasted that you forget to take your shots? Absolutely not. Should you do hardcore drugs? No, we should never do that, right? But the reality is, if you're going out with your friends and having a glass of rosé and a bowl of pasta, people think, oh, the pasta is inflammatory, it's going to ruin my eggs, that is total BS.

Missy Modell:
So are there any things that are actually true, things that are not good?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Smoking cigarettes. Cigarettes are very bad for your ovaries. I mean, cigarettes are bad for your whole body, right? But the cigarettes are known to decrease egg quantity.

Missy Modell:
Even vaping, I would assume, because that is.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Yes, you should not do any of that.

Missy Modell:
And for me, so for my experience, I was about ten days. Would you say that's a typical cycle? Is that shorter or longer and how? Because I've had friends that were on estrogen patches and then started the medication. So what are those kind of circumstances that might happen?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So the younger you are, the faster you go. You know, I compare my life to a marathon, so I'm like running a marathon at 29, you're definitely going to finish sooner than when you do it at 39. So your ovaries are faster, they have like more gusto. So they only need 9, 10, 11 days of meds. And because you're young and your body responds in an appropriate manner, you oftentimes don't need the estrogen patch because you don't get what we call dominant follicles. So we can minimize the time that you're on meds and the extent and the length of time that you're coming to see us when you're younger. As you get older, it's like we need to push, push, push to get you to the finish line.

Missy Modell:
And for medications, I know I was on Manipur and Follistim and I like feel like I'm a doctor by the end of this whole thing. Is everyone typically given the same types of medications, but it's just dependent on the dosage?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
That's, exactly, so there are not many stimulatory medications. There's Follistim and Gonolek, and those are the same, and those are like Coke and Pepsi. They're both what we call pure FSH, and then there's something called Manipur, and Manipur is a mixture of FSH and LH. So pretty much everyone takes Manipur and then either Gonolek or Follistim, whichever the pharmacy sent over to you. You also add in a medication, a third medication that prevents ovulation. So that's either an antagonist, which is Ganirelix or Astatide, or an agonist, which is Lupron, because if you don't take something, then you're ovulating, you'll lose all your eggs.

Missy Modell:
Have you seen that happen?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh yeah, but not really anymore because in modern fertility practice we know to prevent that.

Missy Modell:
And I thought of another thing that people can't be on when they're freezing their eggs.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
What?

Missy Modell:
Ozempic.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh, that is very ..., yes. So the Ozempic ... will go the whole thing. It's not that it's bad for your eggs, or at least today we don't think it's bad. But what we're seeing is a higher rate of complications from anesthesia. So people are aspirating, that means swallowing their bowel contents and then getting pneumonia. So if you're on Ozempic or ..., we're asking you to stop the med two weeks before your egg-freezing cycle.

Missy Modell:
So aside from that, what are any potential risks? Are there risks from the medications? Because obviously I went down a deep dive and I'm like, are there risks to breast cancer or uterine cancer? Like, what would you say to that in terms of any potential?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
There's never been any data that is correlated with stimulatory medications to breast or ovarian cancer. And even there's never been any data that shows dose-dependent correlation, so if I do ten cycles, does my risk or my chances, you know, 10%, tenfold increase? It doesn't show that. Now, personally, as a doctor, do I like when people start getting into the double digits of cycles? No, because I'm like, I have to imagine that there is some risk, but the medications themselves are not going to cause cancer. The biggest side effect of the medication, and we've spoken about this a lot, is bloating. You're going to be super bloated and you're going to have some transient weight gain.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, because for me, it's funny, I had bloat start at the end and then after my retrieval, I felt really bloated for like 2 or 3 days, and now it's pretty much gone down.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Yeah, because it should be getting to the, the worst part should be ending.

Missy Modell:
What is the worst part?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Should I say it's like climbing a mountain, the day of your egg retrieval is not the worst day, it's the day after, and the 2 to 3 days they're like, you're going to peak and then you're at like the peak and now you're coming down the other side.

Missy Modell:
So my peak, if I did it Thursday and it's Monday.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
You're on the way down the other side because I would say Friday, Saturday, Sunday are your worst three days, Monday is the way down.

Missy Modell:
Because I think also the emotions for me is something I didn't expect. Like I feel much better. I had very minimal cramping, to be honest, like the day of and the day after bloating, uncomfortable, but now I feel very low, like super depressed.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Well, that's progesterone. So the hormone that makes us all feel sort of crappy, sort of depressed is progesterone. And after your egg retrieval, you're not dominated by estrogen anymore, you're dominated by progesterone. So people always say, oh, I felt great on the shots. I'm like, of course, you did, because it was tons of estrogen. It's when the progesterone sets in that you're like, oh God, this is terrible.

Missy Modell:
And I kind of bypassed the whole retrieval part. So once you decide you're ready so that we have a trigger shot, right? You have those eight, ten, nine days of shots and then you decide that the follicles are big enough to retrieve eggs. Then, what happens?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So then once we decide, okay, we're good to go, we give you what's called the trigger shot. The trigger shots are meant to trigger maturation of the eggs. The eggs have to complete the final stage of development so that they can ultimately be fertilized by sperm down the road. So that happens 35 hours before the procedure, and then we extract your eggs in the operating room 35 hours later.

Missy Modell:
And what is the procedure?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So you go to sleep like you would for a colonoscopy or an endoscopy, we use a vaginal ultrasound, we thread a needle through the ultrasound, we puncture the vaginal wall, we go into the ovary, and that's how we get the eggs out.

Missy Modell:
It's like a little vacuum cleaner.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Exactly, like a suction device.

Missy Modell:
Little suction device. So what does maturation mean? Because I got, and I haven't revealed this yet, I got 13 eggs, but then 10 were mature enough to freeze. So number one, is that good?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
It is perfect. You got an A+.

Missy Modell:
I got an A+?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Yes.

Missy Modell:
Because we were nervous. Because I didn't know, because my AMH was a little low, and you thought I was maybe going to get eight. Well, no, you said you were hoping for double digits, so why were you hoping for that?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Because I was hoping that your ovaries would actually, at the end of the day, respond a little bit more robustly than your AMH showed. Because looking at your ovaries, I was like, you know, I think she's a little higher than this AMH level. One thing with being an experienced clinician is I've seen thousands upon thousands of ovaries, so I can sort of ... and say, oh, I think the AMH was a little low. I think the AMH was a little high. So I thought, I think she'll be able to get there, and then I hoped that you would get a good percentage of mature eggs, which you did.

Missy Modell:
So are there guarantees to this? So I got ten eggs. What does that mean for people? Because a lot of people ask me, okay, is it a shitty insurance policy? Is it a good insurance policy?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I mean, it depends on how you look at it, right? You can be like, is it a shitty day or a good day? Depends on how you look at it, right? But the point is, is like ten eggs is better than zero eggs. So at 36, if you have ten eggs frozen, that's going to give you a better chance of pregnancy than trying to get pregnant at 39. Now, maybe those ten eggs aren't going to work, but it's better than having done nothing, and that's really the way you have to look at it.

Missy Modell:
What does ten eggs mean? Because that doesn't mean I could get ten chances of a baby.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
No, absolutely not. So ten means that you, at your age, you have a very high chance, greater than 50% of at least one good embryo that should translate into a pregnancy.

Missy Modell:
Okay, so 10 to 1 embryo is typically the ratio.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
That's, I mean, we never know, right? So we don't know how it's going to fall. Are you going to be someone who has ten eggs? Like nine are going to survive the thaw, eight are going to fertilize. We don't know where you're going to fall on that, but we know for a 36-year-old, we would hope that you walk away with at least 1 or 2 good embryos.

Missy Modell:
That's so wild. What would you like to see at 36? Because, as an open conversation, because obviously I just did the procedure, the idea of doing this again makes me literally want to cry. It's not even feasible in this moment. Would you recommend I do it again?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
To play it safe, I would. Unless, I always say and we've had these conversations, I say to patients, who is the patient I spoke today? Why am I ...? Oh yeah, I know who was, 34, so she, the point is, is that if you are in a place where you're like, hey, I think I'm going to have a kid within the next two years or one year, it's different than my patient that's like, I'm 35 and I have no partner. Because then I'm thinking, well, even if they met someone tomorrow, they're probably not having a kid for a minimum of 2 to 3 years, right? So I'm trying to play that out in my head, versus the patient who comes to me and was like, I have a partner. I'm just doing this just in case, but I think we're going to try in X amount of time.

Missy Modell:
That makes a lot of sense. So by, I think we said February as an assessment, or like after my birthday in January, we could see where I'm at and what that timeline looks like, because that's the thing that's wild to me. It's like I got these ten eggs that I was so excited about and then it's like, we'll see what happens, we don't know.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
And that's also just to like, I think play it safe and try and give women the best opportunity. And the amazing thing is there are a lot of companies now that provide fertility benefits. So I will talk to patients about like, what do you have in your benefits? How much do you have left? What are you thinking? Because we can use that data to really find the best time to do different procedures.

Missy Modell:
I mean, if you have an employer that's willing to pay for it, that's incredible because this is out of pocket, right?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
For most patients, it is, although it's changing a lot in New York and like San Fran and Miami, you'd be surprised a lot of these big companies are starting to cover it.

Missy Modell:
So what is a typical cost breakdown?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Egg freezing is going to cost you about 11, 10, or $11,000, and then you have to pay for the medication separately, which can cost up to $6,000. Now, sometimes your insurance company will pay for the drugs, but it won't actually pay for the procedure. So it really depends on what your specific insurance is.

Missy Modell:
Mine did not, zero coverage.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Which is not uncommon, but I will say the landscape is changing a lot.

Missy Modell:
So maybe I'll get a big corporate job by the time I do it, if I do it again next year. And just in preparation for people listening that are thinking about doing, how do you prime your body, are there any supplements that you'd recommend? What do you think?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I've always been very ..., I'm very cautious about that stuff because I feel like, okay, going back to the theme of this podcast, we as women love to blame, guilt ourselves, right? I did this, this is what happened, I'm to blame, I'm to blame. There is no reliable data that says if you take CoQ10, your eggs are going to be great, but if you didn't, then your eggs are not going to be great. And I think the reality of that is, I say to patients, you can definitely take it, but I can't tell you if it's going to help or it's going to hurt. But I think about fertility and fertility treatments, we're so out of control because we can't control what happens here. So if you want to drive the car a little bit and you want to be in control and that means I'm going to take supplements and I'm going to do acupuncture and I'm going to change my diet, go for it, but if you're going to become a miserable person because you're like, I'm taking supplements, I'm taking these shots, I'm like, all right, then stop the supplements. Do what's going to be best for you, because at the end of the day is going to make you happy.

Missy Modell:
I will say that my acupuncturist, Nicole Kruk, I don't know if you've worked with her, she's phenomenal. And for me, it just was like another holistic approach because I was so, I was injecting myself with so much medication, to then have this more therapeutic, holistic approach was actually a beautiful way to go through it for me.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
And a lot of people say that, they're like, and a lot of times the acupuncturist are, they're much more ... of patients, they have a lot more time with you. So you may be like, you know what? Or like it's the most amazing nap. You're like, when do you go someplace and like nap as an adult for 30 minutes? Someone's like, I need your phone. You're like, yes, I'm giving it up, you know? So I think that that part's really nice too.

Missy Modell:
It's almost like they're the doulas of egg-freezing or something.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh, my God, you're so right.

Missy Modell:
Think about it.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
It's a great ...

Missy Modell:
It just occurred to me. So for people who are on the fence, like I was certainly on the fence for many years, and I have to say, while the emotions are still surging, I'm so relieved I did it and I'm so proud of myself. It's like a feeling of courage because nothing scares me more than going to the doctor. That's just like my biggest fear that I literally came up against every day and I feel like I could literally do anything. What would you say to people who are on the fence, maybe want to do it and have the means to do so, or see an option to do so but aren't sure?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I think just start, just come in and see where you are with your fertility because you're not committing. It's not like you're signing up for it, you have to do it. You're finding out the information and you say at the end of the day, it's not right for me, it's not right for you, but at least come in and learn about it, because I think then you'll never look back. I think one of the worst feelings is to look back and be like, shoot, like, why didn't I at least explore that? Why didn't I check it out? If you did and you didn't do it, you'll be like, you know what? I knew about it, I just didn't want to do it, it wasn't right for me. Talk again about apologizing. You'll forgive yourself more because you'll be like, it just didn't wasn't right.

Missy Modell:
And I really think it's important for people to come out that either regretted that they didn't do it, like Jennifer Aniston. Oddly, that was a huge turning point for me.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I thought that was beautiful, I really did. I'm like, you go. Because she really regretted that she didn't give herself that choice. I'm a big believer in like, fate, like everything happens for a reason, so maybe she wasn't meant to do that. But I also think maybe her not doing it, her message helped so many other women, and maybe that's what her role was.

Missy Modell:
And a lot of celebrities coming out, like I know Paris Hilton froze her eggs, and just women taking charge of their bodies and encouraging other people to do the same.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I think being vocal is so important and I respect people's privacy, so I'm not saying like you have to shout it from the rooftops, but when you're in a position of power and like not just power, but you're very visible to society, unfortunately, you do sort of have to be more transparent because that will help other people find their journey.

Missy Modell:
Yeah. I want to ask, where are my eggs right now? Where are those little cuties?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
They're at home with me, no, just kidding.

Missy Modell:
You sleep with them every night.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
No, they're at CCRM. They are frozen and they will soon make their way to a place called Tomorrow. Not like tomorrow, you know, Annie, but it's a place that is a repository for egg freezing, and it's an automated system. It's amazing.

Missy Modell:
Let's walk through that really quickly so people understand the storage process. So it's not like you do it and you say goodbye. There's an attachment to your eggs financially.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh yes, you are attached to them. So basically the first year of storage is included in the cost of the egg-freezing cycle, and then from there on in, you pay per year.

Missy Modell:
Oh, that's great. Will they notify me?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Yes. People are always like, Oh my God. I'm like, they will notify you.

Missy Modell:
Yeah. I'm like, Oh God, that's my, can you imagine?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Yes, don't worry.

Missy Modell:
So is this worth every penny?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I mean, you're talking to a woman who like, all I talk about, is eggs all day long, so, yes, I would say it's beyond worth it. Because I've sat with so many women who are just so regretful when they're there in their deep 30s and their early 40s that they didn't do it, I always say, but it wasn't available really then. So like, yes, it sucks that this is happening to you, but there's probably not that much you could do to change it. But now it is available and it's becoming more and more mainstream, so I think if you have the ability to do it, I think you should do it.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, I think even two years ago it's different than when I decided to do it now, the way people are talking about it.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Completely, it's completely different. I've looked at a lot of stats on this because I've just been curious. Even my own personal numbers like doubled because it's just so much more commonplace.

Missy Modell:
And just out of curiosity, who are typically freezing their eggs?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
It's changed. It used to be women who I've said that the age drop off is significant. Initially, it was women in their 40s, right? And then it was late 30s. And really that's why it got such a bad rap because people were like, Oh God, egg freezing is terrible. And I was, well, it's not that it's terrible, the women who are freezing are terrible. Not that they're terrible, their ovaries have reached a terrible state. So now it's young 30s, that's like probably the average age.

Missy Modell:
I wish I did it a bit earlier. I think also people think, oh, I don't have to. I have plenty of time, but that's probably the time to do it.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
And I've talked a lot about this too, is like, it's interesting, we go to our OB-GYN and you get a pap smear and you talk about a mammogram and like safe sex practices, but why doesn't your OB say to you at 32, hey miss, what are your fertility plans? I've always thought it's because we don't want to put pressure on women and we don't want to be like bring up a topic that maybe seem insensitive, but that's our job as female healthcare providers to be like, hey, what are you thinking? Because the time may come where it's not so easy.

Missy Modell:
How do we have that happen? Are you writing your book?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
My book.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, your book. Want to give a sneak peek?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I know, I'm very bad at the elevator pitch, like a terrible elevator pitch, but no, it's really about why this needs to become a common topic, not only just amongst friends and, but amongst you and your doctors.

Missy Modell:
Well, also, I just want to tell everybody, I've known Dr. Knopman since I'm probably 14 or 15 years old when she was in medical school. And it's just really special to have this relationship with you and to, I don't know, it feels very full circle. And I think who you choose as your doctor is so important because they become your advocate in every sense of the word. So I just want to say I'm so lucky to have been with you through this process. I could not ...

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
You're like, I feel like you're like a younger sister to me or like my niece. Like never, before the retrieval, you're like, I'm going to die. I'm like, I'm not going to let you die, are you kidding me? I'm like, we're going to go play some Taylor in the OR.

Missy Modell:
Yeah, there's Taylor, there's Rocketman.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
People are like, I hate Taylor. I'm like, I can't take care of you if you say such a thing to me, you know?

Missy Modell:
Sacrilegious in my OR.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Terrible.

Missy Modell:
And what are you sorry for apologizing for?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh, God, everything. right? I was thinking about that, like my older daughter says sorry one hundred times a day.

Missy Modell:
And how old is she?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
12. Why do we do that? Why do we say sorry for everything? I don't know, us women were always taught to be, like, docile, meek, and if speak up you're loud, you're annoying. Oh, God, she's so annoying. No way, like men don't get treated like that. Why is that? I like your, that's a good name for a podcast.

Missy Modell:
Do you have something you're sorry for?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh, God. What am I, I don't know, I'm always sorry. You know what's interesting for me? I think sometimes I feel a lot of guilt for working, you know, hard or like not being there for everything because I feel like, are my kids missing out that I'm not always there? But the reality is, is like I think for me, it makes me a more well-rounded person, and maybe that's a good role model that I'm showing for them. And yeah, I can't make every school event or every whatever it is, but at the end of the day, maybe I am showing them something that's really important.

Missy Modell:
You are, and they're so lucky to have you as their mom. You're incredible.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
So funny, our OR nurses are like, we're going to make you our mom. I'm like, What? They're like, we, we want you to take us here and there. And I'm like, I'm not always that good. Trust me, I too lose my cool. But I think what inspires me every day is I feel so incredibly blessed to be a mom and to have my two girls. It is the most wonderful gift that I've ever been given. So I always think, God, I want to share this with other people. I want to pay this forward. And that's why I get so emotionally connected and so involved because I really want people to be able to experience that if they do want it.

Missy Modell:
Well, you make me want to. So thank you for everything you do and just being such an amazing vision and source of wealth of information. No, just thank you for being you and for being so amazing and brilliant and helping so many people in this really challenging journey.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
I think you have to be like a partner and you have to really understand what helps that person get to the destination, you know, their destination because we're so different. Some people need you to hold their hand. Some people are like, Get away from me. Some people want honesty, some people don't. You have to read the patient and then help them help themselves because I can't be the same doctor to you that I am to the next person. because it may not work. Medically, of course, I am, but how I help you get there is different.

Missy Modell:
Well, you had to be my therapist, right? Where can we find you?

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Oh, you mean in life? Like ... my couch? Oh, I work at CCRM New York. 810 7th Ave, and they can come and visit us in midtown Manhattan.

Missy Modell:
Whew, thank you, Jamie.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Bye, Miss. Thank you so much for having me.

Missy Modell:
Thank you.

Dr. Jaime Knopman:
Bye.

Missy Modell:
Thank you for listening to Sorry for Apologizing, brought to you by Rescripted. If you enjoyed this week's episode, be sure to check out the show notes to learn more about our amazing guests. To stay in the know, follow me at @MissyModell on Instagram and TikTok or head to Rescripted.com, and don't forget to like and subscribe.

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